HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 23, 2025 Council Special Meeting COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF
JEFFERSONVILLE, INDIANA
September 23, 2025
Special Meeting Minutes
The Common Council of the City of Jeffersonville, Indiana met for the Special Meeting on September 23,
2025. Council President Stoner called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m. The meeting was open to the
public in person as well as live streamed via the City Website using Zoom.
ROLL CALL:
The roll call was conducted by City Attorney Larry Wilder and present in Council Chambers were
Councilperson Snelling, Councilperson Hawkins, Councilperson Reed, Council President Stoner,
Councilperson Anderson, Councilperson Semones, Council Vice President Burns, Councilperson White
was late at 05:05 PM and Councilperson Webb was absent. Let the record reflect that 8 Council
Members were present in Council Chambers and 1 absent.
NEW BUSINESS:
1. Heather Metcalf 2026 Proposed Budget
Council President Stoner: "We have our proposed budget and we had our first chance to look at
that at the last meeting, and I think we'll just start off where we left off. If we have any
additional questions, or I do want to let the council know that I had Linsey send out a
communication to all the department heads,just letting them know that they're welcome to
attend this workshop, and we also let them know that there would be potential for future
workshops and that they were invited to that as well. We provided them the opportunity to get
the Zoom link, so if any of them hop on or any of them come in, they're obviously welcome to
do so."
Councilperson Reed: "I know that there is a community meeting tonight, so some of them are
there working with constituents, which is great. I know I reached out to some of them, I know
some other council people did too, to inquire what their thoughts were on their budget items
and where they were. I think the consensus I heard, and tell me if I'm wrong, is it's not great, but
it's what we have to do to take care of our city. We would like to have more funding, but also we
completely understand where we are in this budgetary system. We're not having to cut people,
so we're gonna put our heads down and get through. I don't know if that was anybody else's
conversation?"
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Councilperson Semones: "I have some questions about Arts particularly to get to, but when I
talked to folks, nobody had like a hair on fire reaction. Like, this is not gonna work, and if anyone
did talk to a department head who had those concerns, I'd hope they would share them."
Council President Stoner: "I have a question, Heather, about the...to match the current year
revenues. Can you kind of explain that one more time for me? Particularly the one about the
lowered salt, calcium and chlorine by 42,000. What does that mean? For the record and for
myself and for anybody that might be listening."
Heather Metcalf, City Controller: "So the revenues, uh, were decreased for Motor Vehicle
Highway and Local Road and Street, one reason is because I am using the estimates that are
coming from the state with this budget, usually, I estimate them on my own. Their estimates are
much more conservative than mine, and so, to be budget neutral with the revenues, you would
have to lower the budget that they currently have to match with the revenue."
Council President Stoner: "So it's not that we were taking away salt, calcium or anything, it's that
the revenue coming in for local road and streets is lower, the estimate from the state?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Hawkins: "And do you have any insight into like our inventory?There's been one
year I remember we barely bought any because we had a mountain of it."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Kevin Morland was just at the Board of Public Works, I believe, getting—I don't
know the number—but some amount of salt that he can get now out of Indianapolis.That type
of salt is difficult to find, so I'm not sure, that's outside my realm of departments. But I do know
that they're trying to get the good salt, whatever that is."
Councilperson Reed: "I remember that during the ice storm there were two different kinds of
salt they could use. One would melt even if it was below the freezing point and one would not."
Council President Stoner: "And it got so bad at that point that they had to actually lower salt,try
to melt some of the snow, melt some of the ice, and they were trying to get through some of
those neighborhoods."
Councilperson Semones: "Mr. Hawkins, I didn't talk to Mr. Moreland directly, but the
information I got was that right now the barn is fully stocked and that will get us through two
good snows. So,you know, my question is, well, what are the projections?Of course nobody can
really predict the weather. So two good snows is what I'm told we're at. Now my question, the
$42,000 that's being cut, what percent of that budget is that?"
Council president Stoner: "Well, let's see. The amount requested for salt, calcium and chlorine is
258,000 for 2026, and they're currently at 62.8%of it used for 2025. So I assume this is..."
Council Vice President Burns: "About a fifth."
Council President Stoner: "November and December will probably be..."
Councilperson Semones: "16%."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, and that's what I was thinking, we still have money left for this
year. You follow?So like the budget is for next year, we could have an event before this. So we
really have more money there than you think because you have the rest of this year's money
plus next year's money."
Councilperson Semones: "So that's one of my questions, not about this department in
particular. So this may be a basic concept, but if I have a question, someone in the audience or
in the public might answer.The budget numbers we're talking about,the adopted budget, are
budgeting new revenue, projected new revenue?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Semones: "And then we come back and we do an amended budget in the spring
that picks up rollover monies, encumbrances and other things, right?Can you talk to us about
the difference between the adopted budget and the amended budget?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Not all funds have an amendment done in the beginning of the year to
appropriate their cash balances.The funds that would fall under would be certain special
revenue funds that only those funds can be used for certain projects, like your public arts fund.
So if there is a budget surplus or revenues that are left over from prior years,that's all kind of
the same thing. Monies that's not spent out of the budget from the prior year,then that cash is
still in that bucket. And then, so you are now only allowing the department to spend up to this
dollar amount that's on the original budget.Just throw out the number of$60,000, I'm gonna
bring in $60,000. I'm budgeting$60,000, but I had a hundred thousand dollars left over in my
pot already. So this budget only allows you to spend the $60,000. It does not allow you to spend
the a hundred thousand dollars, it's already in the bank. So to be allowed to spend that a
hundred thousand dollars,you then re-appropriate that cash balance in the beginning of the
year so that the department can then spend all of the cash that they have in that fund on that
specific project."
Councilperson Semones: "Is that the amended budget process?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "It can be,the amended budget process could be additional appropriations, it
could be transfers from different categories that you all approve. It can also be transfers that are
what we call internal transfers that don't need to go to the council, which would be within the
same categories. So that's what the amended budget would be.And encumbrances, there's two
different terms for encumbrances. What I'm calling encumbrances are gonna be, I have
budgeted certain dollar amount in 2025. I'm going to say buy a car and you guys have$25,000
budgeted in 2025 for that. I have no money budgeted in 2026 for that because I only need one
car and I'm gonna buy it in 2025. If some chance happens that I don't actually get the car in 2025
because it's not available, I can then say I have a promise that says like a quote or a contract or
some kind of an invoice, I got it in December. I didn't have time to get it on the claims so that it
could be actually paid in December, and that payment comes into 2026.Then we can encumber
that money and capture that money that was left over from 2025 and appropriated into 2026.
So,those have been done quite a lot."
Councilperson Semones: "so it's when I engage for services this year, but I'm gonna pay for
them out of next year's money?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Semones: "And you said there's another word for that?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "No, encumbrance has two different words, but that's my term for what I'm
talking about now. Encumbrance can also mean I'm going to capture part of that budget to use
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for something else or something particular. We're not talking about that word encumbrance. I'm
talking about encumbrances that would move budget that's budgeted in the prior year into the
current year based off of an invoice or a contract that we have from that prior year. Because the
budget starts over in January, everything goes back to zero other than what you're saying here."
Councilperson Semones: "So particularly regarding the Public Arts, they have some sort of
special fund, a non-reverting fund?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Semones: "Okay. So when we say we're budgeting a certain amount, $60,000,
their amended budget is going to reflect balance of that non-reverting fund, which is like a
hundred thousand dollars?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "If you re-appropriate the cash. But you can't do that until next year."
Councilperson Semones: "Right, so that's what we did last year for the 2025 budget year for
Public Arts. We budgeted $128,000 then when we came back and did the amended budget, they
had like $237,000. Okay, so that's the difference between the adopted budget and the
amended budget? So when the News and Tribune put out an article this week that said the
Public Arts budget was cut by$177,000, which is what they reported,to me that's incorrect. Can
you explain to me why that is incorrect? I think I know, but you're the expert and I'd like the
public to hear it."
Mrs. Metcalf: "The normal annual budget for public arts has traditionally been 4%of our edit
dollars from the prior year.That has changed in the past based off of revenue not having
capability of doing that, I believe that was during COVID times.Then we continue to budget the
4%this year. We don't have that capability and needed to find ways to make the budget
revenue neutral. So we lowered the revenue going into that fund."
Councilperson Semones: "By 50%?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes. They still have the amount left, whatever it is. They may have a budget of
$230,000, but they may not spend all of that $230,000."
Councilperson Semones: "Right. So their amended budget, if we follow the same procedure
we've done for the last several years, their amended budget is going to next year reflect the
$60,000 that we potentially adopt in this budget plus the, I don't know, $100,000 or whatever
that's left from their non-reverting fund. That would make their total budget $160,000."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
Councilperson Semones: "So that means the dollar amount of cuts that was reported by the
News and Tribune is only looking at the difference between the amended budget from last year
and the proposed adopted budget this year."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
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Councilperson Hawkins: "That's right. I saw the same thing and thought, yeah, they don't
understand what that is. But yes, that's correct."
Councilperson Semones: "Okay."
Council President Stoner: "So Heather, you said what you estimate, the city estimates, pretty
conservatively about the state and what the revenues are going to be. How often would you say
that we actually end up getting more than what we've estimated, or versus how often do you
think we get less?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "The account balance report that I give to you all every month has the revenues
on there, so you can watch those trends and see exactly how each account is coming in. I think
some things are difficult to estimate, like your gas taxes and things, especially when they change
for legislative reasons. I know that next year they also changed where the FIT and CBET
distributions are going to be allocated to the general fund and not necessarily allocated to the
other levee funds. So there could potentially be changes that I don't know about, there could be
grants that people get that I don't know about. But I do look at four years back and the current
year and forward, try to look at trends, and try to make my best guess on certain things. I don't
have a special calculator, but I do know that the state has a special calculator and they basically
take the last three years and average it out by 85%. I feel like that might not be quite correct on
certain things, especially when looking at gas taxes during COVID when nobody was driving and
those taxes went down tremendously, and then they're taking an average of those three years
back, and it just didn't make sense. This year is very different, there have been a lot of changes,
and I think it should be on the safe side that if I'm estimating things much lower than what they
are, then that's probably a good thing to build up some revenue or some reserves and not get
into a pickle of something that I don't know about. Apparently the state people know all the
changes, and I may have missed something."
Councilperson Reed: "I think that's smart because I know that we've lowered the reserve
amount that we have by a considerable amount just over the last few years, and we're looking
at some trying financial times going forward. So I think any conservative measures we can take
are positive in my opinion."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well then when they factor theirs, they know more than we do about
what is coming. That isn't something that nobody knows about. They kind of know the writing
on the wall."
Council Vice President Burns: "We hope they do."
Councilperson Reed: "Assuming positive intent."
Council Vice President Burns: "I'm gonna piggyback on Mr. Stoner's question. Historically,
except for this year, you've done the estimation for our budget, correct?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Council Vice President Burns: "So if you estimated our budget to be 69 million, historically, when
the numbers are all certified and everything has the funding from that come in, has it been less
or more than what you have?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I give you all a master funds report that shows the differences, where it actually
ended up from the prior year."
Council vice President Burns: "I believe, and I agree with being conservative on your estimates. I
think in the past we've usually generated a little more revenue than what's estimated?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes, I mean we usually don't spend a hundred percent of our budget."
Council Vice president Burns: "But our estimate's usually more conservative than what actually
comes in?"
Mrs. Metcalf: So, if we looked at 2024, the circuit breaker was $87,000 more than what was
estimated. The miscellaneous revenues, I'm just talking about the general fund, miscellaneous
revenues came in $1,000,007 more than what was estimated, our expenses were $1,000,003
less than what was budgeted. So the beginning cash of what was estimated at the end of 2024
was estimated at 6.2 million, but it actually came out to be about 9 million. So you gained some
money last year, because revenues were budgeted low. No one spent a hundred percent of
their budget, so that's part of normal practice. But I feel like you should always look at your
budget as a hundred percent budgeted just in case."
Council President Stoner: So, you know, I've looked through this, I think we've all had an
opportunity to look through it and maybe people feel the same as me or maybe they don't, but
it was hard for me to find a lot of waste. I mean, there doesn't feel like there is a lot of waste in
this budget. I mean, seeing the budget from last year and seeing this one, obviously I do believe
there's opportunities and I'm really looking forward to discussing those opportunities. But I
know there's been comments in the press and the comments from the administration about we
run a very lean budget and I think we do run a very lean budget. I guess my question is, I don't
think I got to touch on it as much during our last meeting, but I wanted to just thank you for the
dredging. I know we had several conversations about the dredging, and I'm very happy to see
that is being taken care of. Something else that I had mentioned was along the lines of police
officers, and I'm not just saying that because Chief McVoy is in the room, but I had mentioned, is
there any chance for us to take a look at what it would look like to add two more police officers
in 2026? Obviously understanding the significant challenges that we're facing, but then I'd also
like to turn that question back to the council, if we're really in a tight position right now because
the state has changed the way local government financing is working, it's changing the rules, it's
forcing all cities across the state to have to face these severe cuts. But it also ties our hands
within our ability to plan and our ability to plan for the future. Whether that's in capital
purchases, we look at the fire trucks, the police mobile command center. You also look at just
personnel, like how can we go and say we want to add two new police officers in 2026 when we
don't know what's gonna happen in 28, 29, 30. But with that being said, what are our
opportunities to work with you to plan for the future? Or is everything just on hold in your
opinion?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "No, I think that there's some opportunities for other revenues, other types of
revenues that can be adopted. I should say when I went to the training in August, it's a State
4 Board of Accounts called meeting, and they basically said that there was a lot that has changed
and will change in the next five years or so. But let's just unwrap 2026 for right now, we'll
unwrap 27, 28, 29 later, but to get us through to right now, let's just talk about 26. So there was
not a lot of future looking at the moment. I think everyone's just trying to get through what they
have to in their immediate future. I do think that there's some other revenue opportunities that
are available that were talked about, like the wheel tax and the vehicle excise tax, I don't know,
one of those. I'm not really familiar with those at the moment because we were just trying to
get through what's gonna happen with property taxes, what's gonna happen with income taxes.
I hope that those will be looked at in the future because I do think, that it's looking to me, that
the state is giving the opportunity for the locals to take and make those decisions locally rather
than having them just across the board from the state. So I think each of us all have different
needs and I think everybody's gonna be doing different things. That's the other issue with the
wheel tax is that you can customize that to our needs, and it's not the same from one county to
the next and it's not gonna be the same from one city to the next. It's all very customizable."
Council Vice President Burns: "So I read the county has to approve the wheel tax and then it's
distributed. Is that correct?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "No, I don't think that's the same now. I think that you can have a municipal wheel
tax."
Council Vice President Burns: "Okay, that's what I thought."
Mrs. Metcalf: "As well as a county tax."
Council President Stoner: "I've noticed some other cities doing the wheel tax."
Mrs. Metcalf: "But I do think that should be seriously looked at because of the Community
Crossing Grant and that potential funding for road projects."
Councilperson Snelling: "Does that cover all of the Community Crossing? Is there just a portion
of that? Some of it's left, right?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "The portion that we have been able to get awarded for these past years is one
pot of monies.They have another pot of monies that would be available if you do the wheel tax.
The same type of program that we've been getting is still available if you don't do a wheel tax.
That pot of money got much smaller and it got very competitive because I'm not sure how
people are taking the wheel tax and how well received that is. I think that with some education,
that can be understood—the reasons why that needs to be done. If I pay a little bit more on my
wheel taxes so that I can get my roads paved, maybe that education isn't quite understood."
Council Vice President Burns: "We had wheel taxes before in the past, Clark County did."
Councilperson White: "What about tobacco tax?Can do that on a local level can't you?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "No, I don't know."
Councilperson White: "Or sales tax?"
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Mrs. Metcalf: "I don't know, was that something we looked at before?"
Mr. Wilder: "I'm gonna tell you that I believe that local sales tax requires a legislative act. I'll look
at that, but I believe that that's the only way."
Council President Stoner: "Have we had any recent engagement with Baker Tilly on the
administration side?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "For forecasting different revenues?"
Council President Stoner: "Yeah."
Mrs. Metcalf: "No not yet, but I know that it is going to be pursued."
Council President Stoner: "I know that the county has had. I think they had a discussion at some
point maybe with Baker Tilly in the past three months. I've had some conversations with county
officials about it. I mean, I know you said you want to focus on 2026 and I agree. But I had the
conversation of like, you know, is there any appetite out there for the county to raise their LIT
right now? I don't even think it would be feasible for them to do it, and even if they did, it goes
away in 2028. So even if it helped us in the short term, we're not gonna have it forever. But I do
think that at some point a joint conversation with the county officials is important, because I
think the conversation right now is that the LIT the city's gonna be able to do is not gonna
replace what we're losing from property tax revenue, but maybe that changes."
Councilperson Semones: "Baker Tilly told me that the wheel tax has to be adopted by
September 1st, so we have a whole year to work on that."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
Councilperson Hawkins: "I have a couple questions for clarity's sake. So I'm looking, I mean I'm
sure you know where this line item is. I'm looking at our insurance line, page nine (see
attachment). So, we had this conversation before, but I just wanna make sure, I wanna be able
to articulate it and then you tell me I'm right. When we put in a grant request or something to
the state, we have to tell what our total package is for employees. Their salaries are easy
enough to determine, but then when we look at their benefits, all the insurances, disability
insurance, unemployment insurance, all of those numbers are lumped into a number, and then
we divide by how many employees, and that gives us a number that's, let's say around $40,000
or I don't know what the number is, but that's all insurances are paid outta the insurance line
unless it specifies otherwise. Our insurance line is both our premiums and the fact that we self-
pay our claims, is that right?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "You're talking about health insurance now?"
Councilperson Hawkins: "I'm talking about health insurance, yeah. So we self-fund our health
insurance. So when you look at our health insurance line budgeted last year, in 2024, we spent
7.3 million.That was our premiums plus what we spent on what people went to the doctor and
got charged a bill, and then we paid that bill out of that amount, right?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Okay. So the premiums that we pay, 'cause we pay a premium
amount, and if I'm understanding it right, the premium amount, and this would be a question
for the insurance people, that isn't necessarily per person.That is, the insurance company looks
at us as a totality of that number and looks at our risk and comes up with a number. So like, for
example, if we decide to hire a fireman, that doesn't necessarily mean that that number goes up
like a pro rata or one more person. The premium may not change at all because we still could
fall in the range that the insurance company's comfortable with. Is that what I just said? Is that
correct? I mean, I think it is, but I wanna make sure."
Mrs. Metcalf: "I believe it is, yes."
Councilperson Snelling: "I think you sell it by group, am I correct?"
Councilperson Hawkins: "Yeah. So like, if we hire one person, that doesn't mean that our
insurance, if our insurance is however much a month per person, that doesn't necessarily go up
that much more because they're just part of this group that is managed collectively."
Councilperson Semones: "But if you hire 20 more people that might..."
Councilperson Hawkins: "That will probably affect the group, right, so they'd have to reanalyze
it.
Mrs. Metcalf: "If the same person that's been hired also gets very sick, that could happen to
current employees, now you've got 40 employees that are all coming down with something and
claims are increasing so their risk is increasing. So it's, it's a balance."
Councilperson Hawkins: "And then another thing I wanted clarity on is how we... cell phones,
that's aligned in everybody's, you know, we require people to have cell phones. I don't think the
state of Indiana makes us pay for them, but we do, which I think we should. But is that like every
department cutting that check?Or do we have a plan that like is one plan and then we are
doling it out per usage internally? How do we do that?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "So each department is different and could potentially have you are assigned this
particular phone, I am paying this particular bill for you, and then you now have to carry this
phone around with your other phone. So some people have two phones, and the city pays for
the full amount. Some people get a cell phone stipend that would be like $50 a month. You
show me your bill that you paid it, your phone number is on there. All of my work phone, that's
what I do, my phone is my personal phone. The city did not pay for my phone, I just get a $50
stipend every month when I turn in my bills and show that."
Councilperson Hawkins: "And that decision is made by the department?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "By the department and by what the needs are, if it's not required of the job, then
I'm not gonna pay you a $50 stipend, and I'm not going to if you got a phone that's junk. Every
department's different. I don't think it's necessary for the finance department to be buying
thousand-dollar phones for people. I do find it necessary, especially nowadays with two-factor
on all computers and every time you log into any kind of financial software, that our people in
finance have phones that have that technology. So my requirement for my department is to
have a phone that can potentially have that technology. But I'm not gonna pay for your phone, I
will give you a $50 stipend. Every department is different in that way."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, because when I was looking, I was trying to figure out, I kind of
know how many people are in the top echelon of every department. Then I was trying to say,
well, how much are we paying per person for these cell phones?And that makes a lot of sense
because there was no rhyme or reason to it. I couldn't, like, this probably has four people that
have it and their bill's lower than this one, which probably had two. Okay, that makes a lot of
sense, alright."
Councilperson Reed: "I know IU, about three years ago, cut all cell phone stipends for all staff
because they said we have Teams, you have a laptop, people can call through Teams, and if you
have a cell phone, that's your own personal choice. They actually cut from the president down
all cell phones."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well I wouldn't, I would rather just give people a stipend that we deem
have to have one for work. Because then I think, because now when I look at it and I'm in charge
of the finance, I don't know what that number really represents, like, I don't know what they're
doing with that number, it's kind of all over the place. Believe it or not, when Dustin and I first
started on the council, council got a stipend for a cell phone, which we voted unanimously to get
rid of because that's ridiculous. But that was the one thing we could do about our compensation
to reduce it. I mean, I'm not for that really right now, because I think that would bog down this
process. Anybody who's ever went in to get their plan changes on the cell phone knows that
that's like getting hit in the head with a hammer. I think though that is something we should
kind of put in our pocket and remember. I'd much rather just give people the money. In that
way, if you have somebody who works and they have a family plan, you might be able just to
pocket that money. That may even end up being better for you than it would be if you were
getting a phone that you really don't need."
Mrs. Metcalf: "But to say, that to even sign into the computer, you need to have a phone. So if
anybody's using a computer, they have to have a phone."
Councilperson Snelling: "Who determines who gets a phone? Department heads?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Each department is different."
Councilperson Snelling: "So do we know how many is in each department?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I have no idea."
Councilperson Snelling: "Does anybody track that?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Each department has their own, and then they also, I mean you can look on the
vendor history and see if it's a telephone line or if it's a cell phone line or different things."
Councilperson Snelling: "Excluding police and fire, do you have any idea how many that would
be?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "No idea."
Councilperson Snelling: "Who would have that information?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "You'd have to talk to each department individually, I really have no idea."
Council Vice President Burns: "I think a good example might be, I think almost everybody in the
parks department gets a stipend. But probably 20 years ago it'd be like my landscape business.
We all had two-way radios that were on repeater towers that we were talking back and forth all
across Clark and Floyd and Jefferson County, or pagers that were provided. So this is much
cheaper. A$50 cell phone for the guy cutting grass to be able to call and say, "I've had a flat
tire," or "my mowers, can somebody come help me fix my mower?" Or "where are you?We
thought you were here and not there." I would imagine 20 years ago everybody had radios, or
just, that's just one example. I don't even know if they still have radios. Do they still have them
in the street department?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Oh yeah."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well not only that, the management side, but also if they have a
phone, you don't have to ask where they are. You could know where they are, you can locate
them. I'm not against the cellphones. I don't mean this to be a conversation about taking cell
phones. I just think there should be a uniform way. I would much rather just see us give so
many, because then that way we know who's getting them. That answers your question, "like,
how many you're getting?" We would take that number, divide by 50, and you'd have a number,
but anyway."
Council President Stoner: "Is it the same—I know it's not the same plan—but is it the same
company? Like, are we all using Verizon Wireless or all over the place?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "it's all over the place."
Councilperson Hawkins: "And see, I think that's— I think if we got one thing with one company."
Council President Stoner: "Then if you looked at the vendor report, you would see Verizon
Wireless, it's one company. You would know how much."
Mrs. Metcalf: "That's where you get into like a purchasing agent."
Council President Stoner: "Gotcha."
Mrs. Metcalf: "And that concept has not been thought about here seriously. Because each
department has their own needs and each department is different. And I do think that there's
not a one-size-fits-all for all of them."
Councilperson Reed: "And I definitely don't want to micromanage any department's budget. But
you know, I think we are looking at lean times, and consolidating some of those services always
does save us money."
Mr. Wilder: "So to that point, 25 years ago, the city had a purchasing agent. There was an
employee of the city. It was a person that lasted about two years because of the difficulty that
went along with one size doesn't fit all. So that was something that was tried historically.
Everything went through a purchasing agent for the sale."
Councilperson White: "I'm sure there's some savings there with the cell phones."
Mrs. Metcalf: "I know three different departments that buy three different copy papers, and
they all have their different needs, and you can't buy one copy paper for everyone. That's just
one little thing."
Councilperson White: "How about "The Taste of Jeffersonville?That's a fundraiser."
Mrs. Metcalf: "I don't know what that, I mean I know what it is..."
Councilperson White: "You don't know where that money goes?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "There's not a line item. Is that what you're asking?"
Councilperson White: "I'm asking where the money goes."
Mrs. Metcalf: "As a vendor..."
Council President Stoner: "Is that in the Main Street,Jeff Main Street or part of that?"
Council Vice President Burns: "What was your question again Mr. White?"
Councilperson White: "When the city has "The Taste of Jeffersonville", that's ran by the city
committee isn't it?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I don't believe so."
Council Vice President Burns: "No, ran by Main Street and The parks Department collaborates
with them and I believe UEZ."
Councilperson White: "We had nothing to do with it."
Council Vice President Burns: "You didn't make a contribution? UEZ doesn't make a contribution
to it?"
Council President Stoner: "The city gives them $35K."
Councilperson White: "You know that for sure?The city gives to "The Taste of Jeffersonville?"
Council President Stoner: "Well we give Jeffersonville Main Street$35K."
Council Vice President Burns: "I apologize, I am thinking of the wrong event."
Councilperson White: "You're thinking of the chili cook off."
Council Vice President Burns: "No, I'm thinking about "Farm to Table", had the wrong event on
my mind."
Councilperson White: "The Taste of Jeffersonville is..."
Council Vice President Burns: "It's an independent group, because I knew somebody from New
Albany that was actually on the board."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Looks like some things that were purchased for"Taste of Jeffersonville" would be
tickets. Is there an auction, like baskets? But it's not anything more than those kinds of dollar
amounts, which would be, you know..."
Councilperson White: "You don't know if it's related to city pride or not?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "City Pride? No I don't know, not that I'm aware of."
Councilperson White: "Do we know who sits...well that's not really your..."
Mrs. Metcalf: "I would not know."
1
Council President Stoner: "I did wanna point out that we do have a department head here, Chief
McVoy. So if anybody potentially has any questions for Chief McVoy, he is here."
Councilperson Reed: "I actually do, I just had a question about the capital budget reduction to
70,000. Do you feel like that's realistic for this coming year?"
Chief McVoy: "Realistic? Probably not, but considering my overall budget, being able to work
within that with the ability to come to the council at certain points throughout the year and
work within my entire budget, I think I can make that work for appropriations. I know using
salaries monies for equipment is not a way to operate. However, what I'm currently doing in my
department now as the interim chief is I've looked at every contract that we currently have in
2025 and will have in 2026. Some of those contracts will not be renewed; we just don't need
that service. Others are simple conversations of how do you save me 10%? I have to open up the
contract for a bid. For other vendors, you'd be surprised at how many people will come in and
go, I'll take 10%off of your contract to keep your business. So I and my staff are going through in
the next two or three months every contract that we have in the attempt to save those type of
monies for 2026 if that's the case. And then we, I don't like the word cut, because that sounds a
little harsh. I mean it is what it is. But if we restructure some things within the agency to
maximize efficiency, whether it's resources, allocation of manpower, to be able to save overtime
monies or redirect overtime monies into more impactful areas for the community, again, I think
in quarter three or quarter four, there may be some monies left over where I could come and
say, Hey, I need this as far as vehicles or I need this because we do have some aging fleets. Every
chief has his prerogative. You know, for me, I like to see marked vehicles out in front of schools.
That's just my purview. So looking at how we can reimagine or reinvent certain things to make
this work within our total budget is what I was tasked to do as long as I'm the interim chief. So
we started with those contracts. Some, again, we're just not going to renew and we're just going
to have to find a way to do it ourselves. I have some very talented people who will do that. So
that's my thought process as I move forward to 2026 if I'm still in this spot. Hopefully that
answers your question."
Councilperson White: "What is usually paid for out of that budget?"
Chief McVoy: "The LIT public safety equipment."
Councilperson White: "So lowered the police capital budget by$304,000."
Chief Mcvoy: "Too $70,000, is that the line you're looking at?"
Councilperson White "Yes."
Chief McVoy: "To rattle off the amount of stuff that we use to purchase that, I mean..."
Councilperson White: "Is that cars?"
Chief McVoy: "No that has its own line, vehicles."
Councilperson White: "Ok, separate. It's just all the other different types of equipment you
have. Will this hamper the readiness of the police department, this reduction?
Chief McVoy: "The police department's ready. We always like to stay ahead of the curve. As far
as less lethal munitions, tasers, items like that, new items that come out on the market, which,
you know, I've sat here before for the last 10 years, and everything's a contract and everything
goes up. But what new items are we using for the men and women out on the streets to make
sure that they're safe and the community's safe? So there's always something that comes out
that we want to take a look at. Or T and E computers, 5,000 a piece radios or 6,500, the markup
since 2020 of just basic things that they would need throughout the course of the year. I think
we're good on laptops. We're going to fill out a couple grant forms, one is in process, and one
should be finished by October first, hopefully to get some monies from the state. Traditionally,
Jeffersonville doesn't get a lot of grant opportunities because we are in a better position than
most, like Gary, Indiana, or Hammond. Maybe that's going to change in the next couple of years,
but traditionally in years past, we haven't been very successful in being awarded a full grant.
Usually, we get partial or a minimal amount.To answer your question, I don't think the
readiness will be affected. We're just going to have to make do with what we have and be more
focused on what our wants are versus what our needs are. Vehicles are a need. I'll just be
honest with you, I'm not a car guy. You're not getting the same vehicle today that you were in
2016 when I started here. It's gone from 36,000 to 52,000. We had the largest fleet in the city at
145 vehicles. I've tasked my staff with looking at what we have asset-wise, what we can make
work in trades, and looking at multiple dealers in different types of vehicles. I want to put the
men and women in something that they're sitting in for 10 hours a day that's comfortable,
productive, and efficient, and what's the best cost for the city. We'll be looking at that in the
next couple months. Everywhere I've looked—Chevy, Dodge, and Ford—reasonable is 50-
52,000, and that's before you put lights and stripes and all the stuff in it.These upfits are $10-
12,000 in additional equipment on the car.That's what makes it very challenging for us."
Councilperson White: "So, I apologize for using the incorrect word with respect to readiness—
that means you're ready to handle whatever situation, you're always ready for that. But you said
wants as opposed to needs. With the $70,000 and looking to sell other things that can be sold to
generate some revenue, you feel like with this reduction you'll have everything each officer
needs to perform their duty safely?"
Chief McVoy: "For 2026. Yes. And if I don't, I will be the first one to come in here and tell you
that I was wrong and here's what I need. I hope that's not the case and I hope I can work within
my budget to find what I need. I do think there is some trimming and reconfiguring that we can
do within our current budget, less the capital reduction, to be successful in the year 2026. And
that's with the collective bargaining agreement that was signed. I'm not sitting here saying it's
going to be easy. I'm not going to tell you that, but I'll find a way to make it work. That was my
commitment to the men and women. I'll try to do my best to find a way to make it work."
Councilperson Reed: "I appreciate you doing that, because that's not an easy feat, taking a
budget from 300 to 70. So that's an amazing commitment there, thank you.'
Council President Stoner: "Here's the one thing I'm a little confused about, and this might be a
question for Heather as well. We lowered the police capital budget from $304,000 to $70,000,
and I see where that's reflected on page 17. But what I'm confused about is, where is that
$304,000 reflected? Is it in other areas? I'm seeing the 2025 budget amended: the budget was
$67,003, and then it shows the percentage used for 2025. For 2026, it shows$70,000. Also, for
the vehicle line, the 2025 amended budget was$236,000, and it shows zero used so far. Is this
just something I missed?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "All of the capital lines combined. Even though the $70,000 is in an equipment
line, it can be internally transferred to any one of the other capital lines."
Council President Stoner: "Okay, well the capital lines in lit public safety?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
Council President Stoner: "And then the total?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Same thing."
Council President Stoner: "It's still just short of a million for 2026 for everything, even with the
lowered amount."
Mrs. Metcalf: "What's short a million?"
Council President Stoner: "Total requested for 2026 out of LIT Public Safety for police."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes, that's true."
Councilperson Reed left the meeting at 05:50 PM.
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, I have a question for us, the council. Like, I found a lot of places
where I have questions for department heads that I'll reach out to. But we're a department sort
of, and I think we can, there's a lot in here, I see we can go without. So if you want to follow me
along on page five (see attachment). The activity in 23 and 24, the budget for 25, and then what
we're asking for, like on other supplies. I mean, we've never spent over$400 and we're
budgeting 2,000. I mean, let's lower that to a thousand. I don't think next year anyone will be
traveling anywhere, I can't imagine, we're tight on money, and yet we still have budgeted
$3698. I don't even know what that hundred dollars would be for when it comes to
advertisement, we've never spent anything out of that line, I don't even know what that is. And
then special projects, I think we should lower that to $2,000. Business meals, we shouldn't be
paying for my meals and promotion, I also don't really know what that is. I don't know how
we're promoting. So just making those changes is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, $8,000. I have a little sheet
that I'm putting together that I'll send out to people, but I'd be for cutting all of those things.
And then even training, I know we have to leave some of that because we do have some stuff
sometimes. And I assume the 15,200 for subscription and dues, I'm assuming that's almost
entirely AIM."
Council President Stoner: "AIM, and there are a few others, and the clerk sent..."
Councilperson White: "National League of Cities is one."
Council President Stoner: "Yeah, okay National League of Cities is one, and the clerk stated that
they don't do anything helpful or resourceful like AIM. So that could be something we could
potentially look at cutting."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, I mean, I know AIM is useful; I would want to keep that. But
anything else? I never even see anything from anyone, so why are we paying?And then the
contractual services for 14-5—what all is under that umbrella?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Part of that is the amount that's paid to the veteran service officer, maybe. Is
that coming out of the council, or... let me look."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, because then, as everybody else can see, that wildly fluctuates.
We go from zero to 12,000, to 14,500, and now we're only up to six. I was just wondering—it
seems like that should be the same every year if it's a contract for something."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Are you looking at the professional services or the contractual?"
Councilperson Hawkins: "Contractual, 0.023."
Mrs. Metcalf: "So the 12,000 last year was 6,000 each year for the veteran service officer, or
veteran's affairs officer. It looks like we missed paying them in '23, so then it was brought up in
'24."
Councilperson Snelling: "Don't take that away Scott, they're so backed up right now."
Councilperson Hawkins: "No, no that's a good one."
Mrs. Metcalf: "It's for'24, then '25, the 6,000 that was paid was for that."
Councilperson Hawkins: "So really, we need a budget of 6,000 if that's what we're paying. Well,
then they just saved another 8,500."
Councilperson Semones: "Well, I guess I would have the same point under Legal Services. Our
contract with Mr. Wilder is 48,000. Why are we budgeting 60?"
Mr. Wilder: "Cut it to like thirty-six."
Councilperson Semones: "I'm not suggesting that, I'm asking why we're budgeting 60 when our
contract is 48."
Mrs. Metcalf: "It was transferred in that way because of the attorney for..."
Councilperson White: "I raised it last year with the idea that we would increase the attorney's
contract. We never did."
Councilperson Semones: "We could take that back down to 48 or even 50, and that saves
another$10,000."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Yep, $50. Let's do it. I mean, I know we're not voting on anything right
now, but conceptually, are we?"
Councilperson Semones: "My suggestion would be to take it to 50, and if we need more, then
we deal with it when we need it, right?"
Council President Stoner: "That's not the only place we pay legal services out of, though, right,
Heather?"
Council Vice President Burns: "We pay the contractual legal services, but we don't always have
that."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct, any attorney would need to be paid out of a legal service account."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, but if we need one, I mean, we could just additionally
appropriate to cover the shortfall, right?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Or a transfer."
Mr. Wilder: "And I will always say that other than hiring your counsel, if you need other lawyers,
they have to actually go through the legal department. Mr. Merkley has to hire a lawyer and
task that lawyer to you if there's an additional need over budget, your counsel."
Councilperson White: "Okay, so how does attorney-client privilege work with that?"
Mr. Wilder: "The privilege is yours, but the way that statute reads counsel, council
and everything else comes under the law."
Councilperson White: "The power to appoint the privilege remains with that."
Mr. Wilder: "Correct, yeah,you're the client, you always have the privileges."
Council President Stoner: "There's also another legal services line in city council in economic
development for 13,008 and 0%of that on page 13, and there might be some more."
Councilperson White: "How do we pay for George?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Let me check."
Councilperson White: "Out of our budget?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I believe so, Lisa was asking for transfers how that's gonna be paid.That was paid
at legal services into the general fund, Phisher& Phillips."
Councilperson Snelling: "What are you talking about Evan?"
Councilperson Hawkins: "He's on page 13, I'd be for zeroing that out as well, like what do we
have that for?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Originally transferred from your social projects account. So I'm not sure if you
want to zero it out or if you want to shift it to your special projects account."
Councilperson Hawkins: "I'm trying to say not spend it somewhere."
Mrs. Metcalf: "So if you wanna not spend it, then I would zero it."
Councilperson White: "The River Boat funds?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I think he's talking about..."
Councilperson Hawkins: "LIT Economic Development."
Council President Stoner: "Just my opinion,you know, not that things would come up, but if
something did come up, I mean,we haven't been sued, but I know there's people that's been on
the council longer than me and maybe knows that that has happened in the past.So that's really
the only thing I would say is that if that does, if that is the case,then we'd have to do some sort
of transfer likely."
Councilperson White: "If we get sued then Larry would handle it."
Council President Stoner: "Well,yeah, I guess you're,you're right."
I
Councilperson Hawkins: "I mean if something comes up then we just gotta get it from
somewhere else."
Councilperson Semones: "There's litigation that is not covered by your 48,000. That's a
separate... I'll read it again."
Council President Stoner: "There's a stipulation in that. There is something in that contract that
states..."
Council Vice President Burns: "You have to pay for expenses, 'Cause I believe the one time we
were sued, we paid for the depositions, but that was it."
Mr. Wilder: "I swear this covered it all."
Councilperson Semones: "I'm probably mistaken, I'll re-read it."
Mr. Wilder: "And I don't object, clearly I thought it did. I'm okay with that."
Council Vice President Burns: "Is the Indiana landmarks. Does that pay for Laura's salary for the
historic district?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I have no idea."
Councilperson White: "Yes."
Council Vice President Burns: "She's paid $4,000 from us."
Councilperson White: "To answer my question earlier, Bill did some very fast research and found
that "The Taste of Jeffersonville" website and it was started by the city in 2005. They did use
that money for beautification."
Mrs. Metcalf: "And City Pride used to be called beautification."
Councilperson White: "Yes, and I think it just got away from the city over the different mayors,
and as of last year, they voted to be independent. So that money was used for City Pride. We
have lights downtown that I think cost like $80,000, and they're beautiful. But I wouldn't think it
would be a problem if we took a year, two years off, to figure out what the state's gonna do to
save some money."
Councilperson Semones: "They'll be even more beautiful when we bring them back."
Council Vice President Burns: "For City Pride you mean?"
Councilperson White: "I think it's through the parks, I'm not sure which department. I thought it
was through City Pride but it might be the Park's department."
Council Vice President Burns: "Oh you mean the lights in the park for Christmas?"
Councilperson White: "They're not, they're all year round now. There's a service that maintains
them year round. They're like that big tree in the community garden."
Council Vice President Burns: "I was just thinking that they had 'em put up for Christmas and
they said don't take 'em down. But they're paying somebody to maintain those?"
Councilperson White: "I thought so to, but yes."
Councilperson Snelling: "Curious to who it is?"
Councilperson White: "Call Paul, or do you wanna look into that to see that?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "So there was an additional $50,000 that you increased the amount going to City
Pride a couple years ago for Christmas lights. It is separated from their regular budget. So it is in
an account that's just called Christmas to pay for that$50,000 so that they don't inadvertently
have that mixed in with the rest of their$30,000. So, and I do believe that they had the lights
put up via a vendor. Saw that the couple of very large trees looked very nice with them lit up
and decided to keep them on those trees. I don't think that they're paying for an ongoing service
of that."
Councilperson White: "That's within that$50,000?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Right."
Councilperson White: "What's the other$30,000 for?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "The regular City Pride stuff of the flowers and the mulch and the plants and
water. All of the things that go with City Pride. That's 30,000 was their normal budget. I mean
that was what they were getting annually anyways. And then it was increased by that 50 that
was specifically for the Christmas lights and also to be consistent with the Parks Department and
to make sure that they're all kind of in the same vein of however it is that they're setting up the
lights."
Councilperson White: "Maybe you're right, they put them up for Christmas and left them."
Councilperson Semones: "Now that I think I have some insight into the workings of Councilman
Hawkins' mind and how he approaches the budget, I have questions. So page one (see
attachment) line 0.083, performance increase pool. Zero activity in 2023, zero activity in 2024.
There's no zero activity in 2025, but we've budgeted $40,000?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Right, so that is the account that the percentage increase goes into—that
performance increase pool account. In the past we've been budgeting about 3%. If you all
decide to do a 3% raise for people, it's also based off of performance. Then each department
does a performance review for all of their employees. They have a pot of 3%to deal with, and
some employees don't get all of theirs because of performance issues. You can shuffle that
around, but you can never go over that total 3%for all of the employees.That's what gets
calculated based off of their current year salaries. So if you look at the current year amended
budget for regular—say you take the second person there, the executive assistant—the salary is
exactly the same in 2025 as it is budgeted requested for 2026. Then the increase is budgeted in
that performance increase pool, and then that money gets transferred into that specific account
of wherever it falls. In the mayor's budget, it is much higher because the department heads are
budgeted in the mayor's budget. That number then comes to the council to do a transfer,
because you can't transfer outside of the department. So it actually gets to you as an additional
reduction.
Councilperson Semones: "Perfect, and I understand. So it's budgeted there, but it's not spent
out of there."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
Councilperson Semones: "Okay. So that answers I think probably one of my other questions. On
the significant changes sheet (see attachment) that you gave us last time, one of the items was
budget head increases in mayor budget."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes, Department Head increases are in the Mayor's budget."
Councilperson Semones: "Thank you, I'm looking at it and read it wrong. So my question was
gonna be, what is the number on that? Is that the 40,000 or is there more, like are all the
Department Head increases, do they add up to that to 40,000 and that's it?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "They add up to that slightly less than, because there are two employees that are
in the mayor's office that their 2% is also included in there."
Councilperson Semones: "So one of my questions was Department Head increases. How much is
that, and you're telling me the total's less than 40,000? And this is where it comes from?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Councilperson Semones: "Beautiful, thank you very much."
Council President Stoner: "And it's based off a performance review?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Normally in the past it is. I'm not sure if that's the way the determination is going
to go this year because having it a lower dollar amount, there's really not a whole lot of wiggle
room. It might be more of a cost of living increase rather than a performance review."
Councilperson Semones: "So we could eliminate that $40,000 if we asked all the Department
Heads not to take it this year?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "That is correct."
Councilperson Hawkins: "I have one last topic, if we're done with that one for me anyway."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Hold on,just one caveat to that question. That answer is yes, that's true for the
departments that are in the general fund. If they're in another fund, that's budgeted in that
fund. So like the sanitation employees and all of that, and it's not in the mayor's budget, it's not
in the mayor's general fund budget. It's in their individual fund. So it can all be determined
though if that's what your privilege is."
Councilperson Hawkins: "In regards to..., this is another one where there's small amounts, but
there's 12 times those small amounts with the mileage and traveling mileage. That would be
anybody in that department who for some reason uses their vehicle to go somewhere. We pay
them mileage, right?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Or tolls, sometimes tolls get paid out of there or an airline ticket."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Okay, so talk to me about, other than police and fire, who is, and how
many vehicles do we have out there? Like, who's getting a city vehicle?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I wouldn't have that answer right now, I don't know, that's not my realm."
Councilperson Hawkins: "Well, because my question would be, do we have a crack somewhere?
Because some of these mileages seem quite high, and granted I didn't know tolls were in there,
and that could quickly add up. But I hope we don't have a crack here in our little system where
somebody who's given a car is also claiming mileage."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Oh no, that couldn't happen. And then also,travel and mileage could possibly be
hotel rooms and your food. The way that I use my budget for travel and mileage based off of
training is that I would have the conference registration come out of my training account, but all
of the expenses—hotel room, mileage to get there, food that I ate there, all that kind of thing—
would fall under that travel and mileage account. So it's not just vehicles and things. It could be
the hotel stays."
Council Vice President Burns: "What's our per diem? Do you do per diem or do you just turn in a
receipt?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "It is receipts, and also there is a limit based off of the federal government. Is it
GSA, some kind of a website that you'd have to go to get the limit. But everything is paid by
receipt."
Council President Stoner: "We're still under the mayor's executive order of suspended travel
right now."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes."
Council President Stoner: "And does it all have to go through the Mayor's office or the Board of
Public Works?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Board of Public Works."
Councilperson Semones: "Donna started an Excel spreadsheet with questions and I entered the
question about city vehicles into that. I don't know if anybody was answering those questions."
Councilperson Snelling: "I was gonna ask, I want to know how many we had. I mean, excluding
police and fire because they're kind of not in it, but I'd want to know how many cars we have?
How many cross the bridge after hours or on weekends? Not during working time."
Mrs. Metcalf: "So I do know that the River Link monitoring, there is an employee that monitors
that. And any crossing that's not known about or told in advance, "I have to go over to the dump
site" or whatever it is, she gets notified of that toll. And then there are many employees that
pay the cost of using it for a non-work-related reason for going over to the other side."
Council Vice President Burns: "You charge that back to them?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes, they have to pay River link."
Councilperson White: "But why would they be in a city vehicle?"
Councilperson Snelling: "Exactly. I have questions about take-home cars. I think there's a hole
there somewhere. I mean, we spend 1.2 million on fuel. We need to figure out where that's
going and what percent."
Councilperson White: "I think we just found an example."
Councilperson Snelling: "That's why I said after work and on weekends, I need to know. If I'm
going after I get off work, going to a nice restaurant or taking my boat to a lake somewhere, I'm
not using the city trucks all weekend. I'd like to see that information. Could Mr. O'Brien provide
that?"
Council President Stoner: "I think so."
Councilperson Snelling: "And I would like to look at the tolls and try to trace them to what cars
or trucks."
Council President Stoner: "And I know that Mr. Merkley's not here today, but I have had some
heartening conversations with the administration. I feel like they also are on the same page with
that. I don't want to speak for them, but I feel like they're also looking into it. So if we want to
have Mike O'Brien come in, or if we have a specific list of questions for him, I think we should
get those answered."
Council Vice President Burns: "We had at one time, on prior council, worked off an asset list
trying to get a rotation of replacing vehicles. And I believe the insurance department had that.
There is a list that shows the age, vehicle number, what department, and what job title is
supposed to be driving that vehicle."
Councilperson Snelling: "I lived in Jeff a long time. I see things and I hear things from different
people in the city. Like, why is this guy taking this vehicle there?There's no reason for it to be
there. You hear it, and I know everybody here, they see it. I wanna look at it. I wanna see what's
there."
Council Vice President Burns: "I thought at one time there was a policy that it wasn't supposed
to go out of state?"
Mr. Wilder: "Well twenty years ago yes.'
Council Vice President Burns: "Well that would still be in effect, unless it was repealed right?"
Mr. Wilder: "About 20 years ago, the council at the time made a fairly aggressive effort to keep
track of those things, and it was in place for maybe two years."
Councilperson White: "Then another Mayor?"
Mr. Wilder: "That would be correct."
Councilperson White: "Did you write that Ordinance?"
Mr. Wilder: "I'd probably say someone did."
Councilperson White: "Is that when the emblems came about?"
Mr. Wilder: "That was the emblems, and then the Mayor rejected that because that one was too
big. Then there was another ordinance conveying the size of it."
Council Vice President Burns: "Was that about the same time they wanted to put call this
number if you see a problem?"
Mr. Wilder: "That would be correct."
Councilperson White: "I think at a minimum, to Jackie's point, and I think Amy had touched on
it, there should be a list of the vehicles and who they're checked out to. And probably the
mileage that is on the vehicle when they check it out, then when they turn it back in for
whatever reason."
Council Vice President Burns: "Well, nobody checks them out and turns them in.They leave
home and then go to work."
Councilperson White: "I'm talking about if somebody left employment, then they return it, then
we get the mileage on them, I guess, is what I'm talking about. I think that's good management."
Councilperson Snelling: "Yeah. It would be a big expense, 'cause you're adding the pay for the
tires and the oil. You got just the insurance."
Council President Stoner: "I'll put together an email and send it to Mike O'Brien and Les. But I
feel like, based off this conversation, I'm sure the ball will get rolling on that. Even just us having
this conversation right now."
I
Councilperson Semones: "I have another concern and I don't have anything to offer about it
I
I
except to say that I'm concerned. We removed $500,000 from the sidewalk fund, and that was
the whole sidewalk fund. So I think people need to be aware that, according to the city
engineer, that means there'll be no new sidewalks put in the city. It doesn't affect repairs, it
doesn't affect the ADA budget for curb cuts. There's a list of people in the city who have asked
for sidewalks, and none of them will be getting a sidewalk next year if we approve that."
Councilperson Hawkins: "I do remember that $500,000 was because we had two enormous
projects at one time. We did Hamburg Pike and also up by Chapel Lane connecting. We had
some massive sidewalks that required engineering, building up walls, and a culvert—not just a
standard sidewalk. So I agree, but those were very inflated bids in a very inflated budget
because of specific projects. I hear what you're saying and I agree, but it's not as bad as it looks,
I don't think."
Councilperson White: "And I would like to think that once we get our budget order next year,
we can reevaluate all of this to see what we can confirm."
Council President Stoner: "All right. Are there any further questions or conversation at this
point?Just going back real quick, I know it's not our role—we can't raise things that are on the
budget—but we can work in good faith with the administration. When I sent the email and we
had conversations about the police officers, did you look into that at all, or do you have any sort
of expert opinion on that? Do you feel like it's just not going to happen next year, or is there a
possibility that it could...?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I think that,just looking at that type of employee, is one of our highest very
expensive employees because of the car, equipment, all things that go with it. There's a lot of
bells and whistles that come with a police officer. It's probably more costly on the front end and
it's gonna be throughout. But then there's also other things that increase. So the increase of a
police officer or a firefighter is more of an increase than it would be on a regular civilian because
of longevity and the other things that they could do. Also looking at forecasting and not knowing
a lot that's gonna happen in the next couple of years, I don't think that's the way that we should
be thinking about increasing expenses that are long term and not just one-off issues when we
are trying to find ways to support the things that we currently have now."
Council President Stoner: "Okay, at the very least, at least we're having the conversation. And I
know it's not just police, it's across the departments that we've had similar conversations about
that every year. So if there's nothing else..."
Councilperson White: "I have a question.The 1.7 million from River Ridge, do we have a date on
when we're gonna have an agreement to approve?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "That would be up to the attorneys, I don't know."
Councilperson White: "So my fear is that we passed this budget that includes this money, but
we don't have an agreement for the money."
4 Mrs. Metcalf: "I have that fear, but I've been promised...Everyone says that we've talked to
them all and it's all might as well just, we're gonna get the check tomorrow. But I don't know."
Councilperson White: "Are they not anticipating that we're gonna vote on any local
agreement?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I don't know. I haven't been a part of any of their conversations."
Councilperson White: "So that's my fear with this, that it's a $1.7 million hole. We don't have an
agreement that guarantees those funds. I don't know how responsible it is to pass this budget
with a $1.7 million hole."
Councilperson Snelling: "Plus, how many police officers do we have right now? 89 active."
Council President Stoner: "I believe it's 91."
Councilperson Snelling: "We took one and put it in the new school, took it off the street. Right.
That's SRO, so that went one down. I saw where they just hired two new ones, or they just got
out of the academy. So that should keep us at 91. But I know we got two new schools coming, so
just keep that in mind. Alright, I just hope we don't keep taking police officers. I would love to
get it in all the schools, but..."
Councilperson White: "Are we gonna have another meeting?"
Council President Stoner: "I was getting ready to mention that, but now I have one more
question about the 1.7 million.This is probably a silly question, but that 1.7 million from River
Ridge, is that kind of spoken for in the sense that, is that divvied out within the budget?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Yes, it's part of the miscellaneous revenue."
Council President Stoner: "Okay. So if for some reason the deal fell through, then...?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "Then this whole budget will have to be reevaluated."
Councilperson Snelling: "We have until November the first, right."
Council President Stoner: "So, okay. I guess we'll just have that conversation now. So we just
talked last time about possibly doing another meeting, because right now the public hearing is
scheduled for Monday the 6th of October, and then the adoption would be on the 20th of
October. So is there, does anyone want to do another?Then also, if we could get a consensus,
do you want me to invite Mike O'Brien to a meeting or do we want to just submit questions?"
Councilperson Snelling: "If he can get the questions and the information, ask him. If he doesn't
have the information first, there's really no point."
Council President Stoner: "Okay, so you just want me to get the information first?"
Council Vice President Burns: "Will we meet before the meeting on the 6th?"
Council President Stoner: "Yes, that good with everybody?"
4
Council Vice President Burns: "We can still make changes after that, correct?We just can't go
up."
Mrs. Metcalf: "Correct."
Councilperson White: "Can we ask for all of the Department Heads to be here just in case we
have questions? Is that something that is doable, acceptable to the administration?"
Mrs. Metcalf: "I don't know the answer to that. And I know that some of these departments got
the budget and there's no changes. So what is the need for me to go to a budget meeting?"
Councilperson White: "They could answer some of the questions.'
Mrs. Metcalf: "True, but some of the questions that you're asking too are things that need to be,
not necessarily off the shoulder. Kind of let me do some research and find out. So it's always
best to email the questions and invite them to the meetings. So that they are aware of what
they're going to be asked."
Councilperson White: "Okay, I see what you're saying."
Mrs. Metcalf: "You're asking about people who have take-home vehicles. Well, it takes me a
minute to figure that out. I can't answer that when I'm just coming in cold."
Council President Stoner: "Right, we will invite them again and strongly encourage them again to
come, whether it's in person or virtually."
Mrs. Metcalf: "But if you don't have a question for them,then they're assuming that you don't
have a question for them."
Council President Stoner: "Alright we'll do the meeting at 5:00 PM on the 6th."
ATTORNEY COMMENTS:
Larry Wilder- None
Les Merkley—Not present
DEPARTMENT HEADS:
None
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
None
COUNCIL COMMENTS:
• Councilperson White— None
• Council Vice President Burns— None
• Councilperson Semones— None
• Councilperson Anderson— None
• Councilperson Reed— None
• Councilperson Webb— None
4
• Councilperson Hawkins— None
I
MI
• Councilperson Snelling—None
• Council President Stoner—None
ADJOURNMENT:
Council President Stoner made the motion to ADJOURN the meeting at 06:23 p.m.
DISCLAIMER:
These minutes are a summary of actions taken at the Jeffersonville City Council meetings. The full video
archive of the meeting is available for viewing at www.cityofjeff.net for as long as this media is
supported.
APP VED BY: itx
--A(-41
Evan Stoner, Council President A EST: Lisa Gill, Clerk
i
2026 Significant changes to the Budget
Estimated Revenues:
Levy funds at LSA Estimates
Income taxes at DLGF Certified Amounts
Estimated Circuit Breaker$8.9 million
Cigarette taxes decreased(Fund 4401)Shifted$16,000 Police to LIT PS Fund 2240
Budget changes:
Took out encumbrances
Took out one-time additionals
2%Performance Increase Pool for Civilians
Department Head increases in Mayor budget
Fund 1101 General-
Increased revenues by$1.7 million from River Ridge
Increased Engineering Dept for Dredging at Duffy's 1101-005-431.023
Decreased capital budget in Vehicle Maintenance,Safety,&HR
Fund 2201 MVH-
Shifted cost of two CDL drivers to Fund 2223 Sanitation-$130,000 2201-302-411.192
Shifted all operating budget to Fund 2209 LIT Econ Dev-$72,997 2201-301&2201-302
Fund 2202 LRS-
Lowered Salt,Calcium,Chlorine by$42,000 to match CY revenues 2202-304-422.021
Fund 2203 MVH Restricted-
Lowered Road Repairs/Construction by$161,000 to match CY revenues 2203-306-422.004
Fund 2209 LIT Econ Dev Fund-
Lowered transfer out to Public Arts to$60,000 instead of 4% 2209-000-452.000
Removed Transfer out to Sidewalk Fund of$500,000 2209-005-452.000
Shifted MVH operating from Fund 2201($72,997) 2209-301&2209-302
Lowered MVH Equipment to$50,000 2209-301-445.000
Fund 2240 LIT Public Safety-
Lowered Police capital budget by$304,889 to$70,000 2240-006-445.000
Lowered Fire capital budget by$161,860 to$70,000 2240-007-445.000
Fund 2502 Park Activity-
Lowered Depot budget by$25,000 2502-540
Removed Budget for Steamboat Nights$93,633 2502-580
Fund 2504 Riverstage-
Lowered Professional Services by$30,000 2504-520-431.007
Fund 2509 Public Arts-
Lowered budget to match CY revenues of$60,000 2509-0000
Fund 2514 Jeff Building Auth Operating
Lowered capital budget to match CY revenues 2514-008-444.005
2025 2026
FYI: Personal Services Difference
General Fund 32,456,853.00 32,463,517.00 6,664.00
MVH 1,157,003.00 1,046,128.00 (110,875.00)
Park 2,269,745.00 2,302,088.00 32,343.00
Sanitation 1,980,340.00 2,186,108.00 205,768.00
2025 2026
FYI: Operating Difference 4%of operating
General Fund 13,727,843.00 13,400,077.00 (327,766.00) 549,113.72
MVH 97,502.00 - (97,502.00) 3,900.08
Park 1,195,334.00 1,174,200.00 (21,134.00) 47,813.36
Sanitation 1,288,075.00 1,204,499.00 (83,576.00) 51,523.00
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